If you're in debt, and it's a taboo subject to bring up, do you suppose everyone else is in debt too, or do you suffer silently convinced you are the only one?
This is of course the wrong question to ask on a Savings blog: the readers are money-conscious and goal-oriented. But before you got here, if you were in debt, which did you believe? Were you better off thinking you were the only one, or that consumer debt would always be a fact of life?
I still have a hard time believing so many other people are in debt: they have higher retirement accounts, bigger houses, newer cars, mommy and daddy to leech from. A quarter of the houses on my street are paid-in-full. I never see a trace of worry on their faces. I tend to think people pay in cash for vehicles and home renovations, because we ought to. And I think the taboo custom here is what reinforces my belief. My friend has no problem getting people to confide they owe money -- me, I do not give off those vibes at all. I only give off the vibes of being approachable for money, despite how ill-fitting, wrinkled, or old my clothes are. Yet when I ask my self-employed friends with their $600K+ houses how they set up their Keoghs or SEP-IRAs they don't respond. Is that a taboo, or are they too cashpoor?
What would the nation look like if people were open about how much they owed? Would people get out any faster? Would they be in peer collectives sharing their strategies as middle-income households rather than heeding a milionaire talking head or a spoken voice over a mass medium?
Ka-ching! Consumers spend more on credit cards
Credit card debt more taboo than sex** I was banned from commenting on this one, due to the IP address I was using (shared by 60,000+ other people) so I am commenting on it here. I see the Consumer Smarts blogger hasn't mentioned whether she is debt-free or has consumer debt.
How is the taboo of discussing credit card debt helpful?
July 9th, 2008 at 09:02 am
July 9th, 2008 at 09:18 am
Also, if people were open about their money, I think the natural American competitive spirit would rear its head, and people would try to outdo each other reducing their debt and increasing their net worth. I mean, trying to keep up with the Joneses is what got us all in this consumer-debt mess in the first place, right?
July 9th, 2008 at 09:19 am
July 9th, 2008 at 09:25 am
I think its odd, because it is always the first thing to cross my mind, and it basicly dictates my life, and thats why I LOVE this forum. I can talk,talk,talk about money and people want to listen.
I dont know if other people are disinterested in money, they live in shame and fear, or just assume debt is a part of life.
Before this forum, I assumed debt was a part of life. I inherently knew debt was bad, but huge chunks of financial smarts were missing from my brain. The way money worked, inflation, mortgages, intrest, honestly it all mystified me, and all money related things felt like the stock market. It might work out, it might not, its a gamble. I knew savings accounts were good, but wasnt sure why. "How could a few cents a month do anything for anybody?" I wondered.
I think discussing debt is incredibly thereputic for me, as well as helps me stay motivated. And I feel like I have the oppertunity to help friends by discussing money issues. REALLY help them and make a difference in their lives. But they dont want to listen. They want to discuss boys, and gossip, and things that we wont even remember we talked about in a week.
I do feel all alone in my financial worries. Not on this board. But in my personal life. I feel very alone.
July 9th, 2008 at 09:30 am
July 9th, 2008 at 09:31 am
My thinking changed when I got friends who discussed money openly, and I started to understand that you can afford a lot more if you just wait until you have the money to buy it.
That a savings cushion sometimes averts additional expenses, that it allows for spontaneity and security. It added fun, not took away from it.
I wish I could teach my family. But they don't want to see. They still have the mentality that everything is good because they "pay a lot more than a minimum" on the cards. It drives me nuts. I think it is that believe that keeps them where they are.
Oh, in their circle of friends these things do not get discussed as freely. And most people have lower level jobs yet much nicer new cars every 3 years.
But what amazes me most is how some people who I know make less and have debt (and no, they did not inherit anything) have this arrogant attitude and project this image... I am not sure how to explain. But do they themselves know this image is fake or are they completely delusional?
July 9th, 2008 at 09:56 am
My experience is a little opposite. I grew up in a fiercely anti-debt household, so my friends and acquaintances have always made a point to tell me how weird I Was to avoid debt. Which means whereas with most of their peers/friends they probably wouldn't discuss it, but they always feel a strong need to prove me wrong. They HAVE to have debt. I completely mess up their ideology.
Anyway, I mostly avoid the subject these days because I don't feel like defending my right to be debt free, and probably have a larger understanding of the taboo, with age and wisdom. I tend to avoid the subject with a 10-foot pole in real life. I get my fix here.
So it is quite obvious to me how much the masses rely on debt to get by. The income or assets don't matter in the least. Bigger assets just means bigger debts. I think I have also glimpsed a lot more of this in my job. Friends come to me all the time for tax and financial help. Where once I Was shocked to find "poor/whoa is me" friends (who I gave money too!!!) made twice the money I do, I now just take it with a grain of salt. It's expected. Now I am just surprised when I find someone living within their means. My clientele at work tends to be a little better. My boss doesn't take on so much the high in debt/troubled people. But their kids are another story. LOL. Most of those kids were born with silver spoons and can't live within their means, so I see it all.
July 9th, 2008 at 10:18 am
One of my peeves is that when I am sitting tight and not spending money because times are hard, there are other people telling me that I am so much better off than most people who are in their eyeballs in debts. I do not think this is true as this world is not a "fair world". Mostly peeved because it feels like a false way to try to make another person feel better for not having as much as what another person appears to have. We just do not know the whole story.
News have a way of emphasizing the worst off people in debts and share bad/negative news for rating purposes which is just a small percent of people.
July 9th, 2008 at 01:17 pm
I was thinking about that concept right after I posted my comment.
Ugh - I could write a novel. Suffice it to say it is one of my biggest financial pet peeves. Since when was life fair?
I could certainly feel that theme in this discussion.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:21 am
July 10th, 2008 at 04:25 pm
First you need to remember that this is the USA where if you make a BIG salary the easiest, no brainer way of keeping that salary away from the tax man is to sink it into a GREAT BIG HOUSE. Historically, this has been the most basic approach to both shelter income while at the same time build equity.
The other explanation for big houses is that someone got an inheiritance/life insurance and didn't know what the heck to do with it so it's either a house OR the casinos. One of my tenants went the casino route. He's ALWAYS late with the rent. Wait a sec! The other tenant blew his inheiritance as well!
If you're still scratching your head take a little solice in this simple fact - those owners are paying more than you ever will to heat, power and maintain that BIG HOUSE. Not to mention the property taxes!
July 10th, 2008 at 04:56 pm
I wouldn't mind sharing it if I thought it was appropriate to do so, but that does depend on the person.
July 10th, 2008 at 06:31 pm
July 10th, 2008 at 08:46 pm
Its funny - the talking about money taboo seems to have split. You brag about what you make, you brag about how much paper appreciation you have. Lately, you brag about how much you've lost. In other words, if it creates an "ooh" - brag about it. The taboo part comes in if the money you're talking about is garden variety.